forum.varttina.com

[john king]

I am intrigued by the influences from the near east in Varttina recordings, especially in Ilmatar, e.g. the various exotic percussion and plucked string instruments, also the frequent use of metres like 7/8, 11/8, and time signatures which seem to hop about without restraint! If taken out of context, one could be forgiven for thinking the first few bars of 'Kivutar' were by Bartok or Stravinsky, or at least a real Bulgarian folksong. I find it all very exciting and beautifully done, but I can't help wondering whether it's done deliberately or one of the group just likes near eastern music and incorporates these features "unconsciously"?

[Kari Reiman]

The complicated time signatures are common not only in Bulgarian or Balkan music but they can be found also in Finnish runo songs, though the rhythmic spirit is somewhat different in them. Many other Finno-Ugric peoples make use of uneven and/or irregular rhythms, too. <BR>Runo songs use many different rhythms 4/4 and 5/4 being the most common. Also 5/8, 7/4, 7/8 etc. are not rare. However, sometimes the rhythms are very irregular: first bar might have 5 beats, next one 7, then 6, 6, 8, 5, etc. For instance Viikon vaivane (on Oidai) is this kind of irregular traditional song, but we arranged it so that we repeated the beginning of the song and made the rhythm regular (still being uneven).<BR>I think this special feature of old runo songs is really fascinating. <BR>When writing Kivutar, my first idea was to make it irregular all the way through (which would be closer to the tradition), but when getting somewhere around beat 37, I realized that it would be a too big job for the band to learn and arrange a song like that (in such a short time we had at the time). So at that point I started to repeat the rhythmic structure and the final time signature became to be 37/8. The intro goes in 14/4. Of course this kind of regularity is also more easy to listen than complete irregularity, though the song is not very easy this way, either.<BR>So, the song's rhythmic roots are Finnish and Finno-Ugric, not Balkan, though I like Bulgarian music very much. No doubt, Balkan music (as well as a bunch of other musical styles) has influenced the playing style of many of the band's players. Sometimes these influences have been consciously avoided and sometimes they have been consciously shown.

[Tibrisch]

Hi, i just wanted to say that Viikon vaivane (on Oidai) is the best song i´ve heard in a very long time! Its beautiful, and the odd timesignatures are great! Does anyone have any advice where to find more of same kind? <P>/Tibrisch

[john king]

There are lots of similar ones by Varttina. If you haven't heard them already I recommend, on Seleniko, Hoptsoi (instrumental) and Suuret ja soriat; also on Vihma, a favourite of mine is Teille heitetty, and Uskottu ei uupuvani. Sometimes what sounds like a straightforward beat from the drums overlays something amazing going on underneath, so it pays to listen carefully!

[Tibrisch]

Thank you for your tips! Värttinä is really great!

[mshuizenga]

Continuing the story of irregular rhythms. On the topic 'One-two-three-four erm... värttinä', mr(?) Ataki points to this topic as answer to the question how to tap the foot in irregular rhythms.
A good start is to excercise a 7/8 in slowmo with hand claps on your thighs: 1-2-3,4-5,6-7. As you can see, I put emphasis on the 1, 4 and 6. This is where the accents can be laid. Now, clap your left hand onto your left thigh on the 1, 4 and 6. The right hand claps on the beats without accent (2, 3, 5 and 7). So the sequence to clap is (L=Left, R=Right): LRR - LR - LR. Try first slow and only go a little faster when you practised 10 out of 10 good. If at any time you're making a mistake, start anew in a slower pace.
Be aware: even a regular rhythm like a 9/8 (which normally counts LRR - LRR - LRR) can be irregular performed (like the Greek pianist/keyboardist Yanni does in the pattern LRR - LR - LR - LR). My interpretation of a 14/8 is like a double 7/8 in the pattern LRR-LR-LR-LRR-LR-LR.
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